Calling all ladies whose hubby's had an undescended testicle!
(my DH had one, corrected only age 7 and now has low counts - around 3 million per ml)

1) Have any of your husbands had genetic blood testing? If so, what were the results - we are awaiting results and I am terrified.

2) Have any of you managed to improve counts with vits/lifestyle changes etc, and if so, by how much?

3) How long have you been advised to continue trying without IUI or ICSI (one doctor says we dont qualify for IUI, the other say we do).

I am struggling with deciding to go for ICSI next month, esp if there are alternatives we havent yet considered, and also because of genetic risks.
We have been trying for 9 months, but because of my PCOS, I have only ovulated 5 times in those months). Would Clomid be a waste of time?

Any help you guys can offer would be great!
Thanks so much!

~Sabine

Hi Sabine, sorry to hear your news. My DH also had undescended testes (both) and have very low counts.

1) We've had chromosome testing. I wouldn't worry too much about this, as you know the reason for the low count being 'mechanical' so to speak. The urologist said that it was done as a matter of course, to rule out genetic reasons for the low count, and that because my DH had undescended testes, then it was very likely that that was the reason rather than it being genetic. It came back normal.

2) Not much for us, I think maybe because again, the reason for the count isn't because of lifestyle or diet. He doesn't drink to excess or smoke anyway, and we have a healthy diet. He's on Wellmans and also some herbal supplements from the acupuncturist. Still keeping at it, only because it can't hurt. His first analysis was 'too low to count', and the most recent one was 1.7million/ml.

3) We were't advised to try longer. We'd been trying for over a year when DH was diagnosed, and we were referred to the Urologist immediately (3 month wait though, and a further 3 months for the follow up, when we got referred for ICSI). It's been a year since diagnoses now, and we're on our first ICSI cycle.

I don't know what to advise for the ICSI. On one hand, it only takes that ONE sperm out of the few million, but on the other, we've had 20(?) cycles without a hint of bfp. I think ICSI for me was the only choice, taking into account my age (34) and how long we'd been trying. Time might be more on your side? I find ICSI so invasive, that if the doc told me there would be any hope of a natural bfp, and if I had been a bit younger (under 30), I would have put it off.

Best of luck Sabine.

Hey Sabine,

My hubby also has 1 undescended testicle and initial count was 1 million.

We've had karotyping done by our FS - they said it was something theywould do as a 'matter of course' for IVF to rule out any concerns - results took 7 months to come back and everything was fine.

Hubby quit hot baths, started taking Maca, Wellman and 1000mg of vit c everyday - he also improved his diet and started exercising a bit more and lost a stone. All the changes upped his count from 1 million to 16 million.

Re IUI - we were told you need 15 million to do IUI so will a low count it wasn't even an option - it was something they would consider if motility was an option but not count - i'm sure the response varies from PCT to PCT.

With a count of 3 millin the chances of natural conception are low - BUT if it's been 9 months and you have the option to make lifestyle changes which could increase your chances, i'd been inclined to give it a a go for 6 months? We tried for 18 months and although the count went up it 16 million total count - 'normal' would be 40 million for total count of 2ml. If we could have IUI now i'd give it a go as our count is higher.

There will always be genetic risks when it comes to having children - we get to pass on the good stuff as well as the bad. Good luck with your journey and maybe speak to your FS about their recommendations?

Thanks so much ladies for your responses. It's the 'what ifs' that are killing me now. It's so hard to know what to do. We don't want to 'rush' into ICSI if there is a chance of improved counts, however we also don't want to 'waste' another year with false hope, esp if the counts improve, but not enough for natural conception or IUI.
*Sigh* where's a crystal ball when you need one?!
(I should add that I am 30, so technically speaking I could wait, but I'm aware that the younger you are, the better your chances with IVF.)

We were very lucky and have had success with our first ICSI. IUI wasn't an option for us as my dhs results were very poor. I was happy to go straight for it as I really never thought I'd get a bfp any other way. Your goal is to get a baby and am sure that's as soon as poss if icsi is likely to be your best bet I'd go for it.

Each year that passes our eggs get older and deteriorate. Another reason why I chose to go sooner rather than later but that's just my opinion on things. We weren't advised about genetic testing but my father in had undescended testes too. However it didn't affect him but my brother in law didn't. It's the only reason that I hope I'm carrying a girl. If it's a boy I just hope and pray he doesn't have same prob. And I certainly wouldn't wait until he was six to do something about it like my mother in law did.

jojoD, thanks for replying. Firstly, congrats!! First time success - so hope I can join you in that soon!
How long did you try naturally before going for the ICSI? Was the issue just low sperm count or were there other factors?
and did you go private or NHS?
sorry for all the questions, hope you dont mind me asking
xx

Of course I don't mind you asking. Ask anyone you want at all
We only tried naturally for about five months I was using ovulation kits and getting positives every month and had a regular 28 cycle. I know 5 months is no time at all but I just had this gut feeling that something wasn't right.

I had googled undescended testes and read about the complications that can come from it years on, ie low count etc...and just thought getting a private semen analysis would put our mind at ease. The dh was happy to go.

The fertility specialist said I should also gets bloods done and have a scan etc. My tests were all fine but when the dhs came back we were told it was highly unlikely that we could ever conceive naturally and would need assisted conception.

Straight away they talked about ICSI, I asked about IUI they said that the sperm still need to be strong enough to break through the egg and they might not be able to. ICSI obviously bypasses that stage.

Our ICSI was only due to male factor- poor count, motility and morphology. I looked into the NHS waiting list in Northern Ireland and it was one year to letter of offer. There is only one private clinic where we live and they only had a four month wait. Our family really helped us financially so the decision was easy. Private meant a much shorter wait. So from we started trying to my BFP it was 16 months

With regard to the treatment I would do it again. It has been horrendous emotionally but is worth it for a BFP. I had 12 eggs collected which was great but only one fertilised. We were gutted all over again but it went on to be a Grade A embryo and here I am 7 weeks pregnant. Proof that it really only takes one wee embryo.

Sorry for the essay.... if you gals need any more ICSI questions answered just ask

jojoD, I think you may become my new ICSI guru! thanks for that info - its great to know. The fact that you had only one and got your BFP is amazing! Hugest congrats!! Did they know why only 1 fertilised? I thought ICSI fertilisation rates were better than regular IVF?
May I ask what your counts were? My hubby is 3mil per ml, low morph, but ok motility. Our SA result said 'ICSI only' and I contacted a private clinic with the results and they said the same.
If there was any chance with that low count, I also have very very irregular periods due to PCOS and have calculated that in the 9 months we have been trying naturally, I have only ovulated 5 times.
Possibly the main thing holding us back is cost. The waiting list here in my borough is 2 years, and I am about 8 weeks from even applying to be put on the list. I guess by the time I get my 1 free go I will be 33 years old minimum. To do it now will cost £5000, but we are going for it. Just cannot bear to think about the 'what ifs' on this gamble we are taking though... (this is probably the only attempt we can afford, and we can hardly afford even this one!)
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. We start ICSI as soon as my period starts - and who knows when that will be, but hopefully April!
xx

You're exactly right, normally ICSI fertilisation rates are much better than standard IVF. You can expect about 70-80% of viable eggs to fertilise. Suppose our fertilisation rate was about 14%, 1 out of 7.

The embryologist looked at them but there wasn't really a reason. The sperm were just sitting inside the other eggs. He explained that sometimes that just happens, doesn't mean we couldn't have a higher rate next time.

ICSI could be the best gamble you ever take. It is a huge amount of money but I thought about it in relation to holidays and cars etc.. Just thought if we spend money on material things it is so worth it to become parents.

I found the hubs SA very difficult to understand. But it seems that his count was 2mil, regarding motility 20% progressive, 66% non-motile and there were too few sperm to do an accurate morphology. Sounds so bad and we still got a BFP.