CurlySue

Based on my tests and OH's sperm analysis, that is how often we would produce an embryo that would be good enough to turn into a viable pregnancy.

Once. In every four years.

Well, that certainly explains a lot, doesn't it?

Seriously, I just don't know how to feel. The appointment was very constructive. It was with the "main man" and he took on my every concern and he acknowledged that we were treated horribly at times. He looked genuinely shocked at what his own staff said and did; at how they thought "good treatment" was. At some point in the appointment, J said "We know that we have issues but we've never really been given a definitive answer on WHY we can't get pregnant."

The doctor took a look at my blood test results. "If I was given this set of numbers," he said, "and I was asked to estimate how old you were, I would say 37 or 38."

So, I have the FSH of a woman up to nine years older than I am.

He looked at OH's sperm analysis (which, bear in mind, we were told was "great") and he said "Do you follow football?" Yes, we both said. "Well, you are Fulham. Low middle table. You're not likely to be relegated, but you'll never get into Europe and I'll be blunt and say that I'd never pick you for my Sperm Team."

So, my FSH, which I was told was fine, is that of a woman 8 or 9 years older than me. OH's sperm, which he was told was great, is the very low end of average, pushing for poor.

"Your body knows how to get pregnant," he said, "but, you most likely only ovulate once every three months. And perhaps his sperm is decent once every three or four ejaculations."

That's how he came up with the calculation.

"Some couples produce an embryo that is viable every month. For others it might take them eight or nine months. For you two? I'd estimate once every four years."

You know what was said about my embryos?

"I'll be honest, 80% of them were crap."

I wanted honesty. I got it. Didn't make it hurt any less. Add that to the genetically abnormal ones that were implanted and it gives cause to concern.

Such cause for concern that he is arranging for me to speak to the chief embryologist. Such concern that he is also making me a further appointment with himself just before Christmas because he seems desperate to make up for the poor treatment we have received.

"She's grumpy," he said, of the woman who told me I had a lot to cry about and went into great detail about how awful a natural miscarriage would be. "And, I'll be speaking to her about how she treats people."

The same about the other woman who I had issues with. He laughed out loud. "I take it you didn't like her?" he asked. "You're not the first."

About the embryologists who did not bother to call me about my embryos he was genuinely disgusted and asked me to speak to the embryologist about it when I see him so that he is made aware of such errors.

"If you still don't have any confidence," he said, "I will help you get transferred wherever you need to go. Don't worry."

I am glad I went. I am glad I had this candid talk with the director of the department.

Makes me feel so utterly, utterly terrified that everything I suspected was right. That my embryos WERE crap. That my eggs ARE far older than they should be.

That OH is perhaps not perfect, either...

At least I know though, eh?

puppymom32

CS,
So sorry for all you have been through. At least the director seemed to sympathize a little bit more than the others and you know truly what you up against. It also seems like he is comitted to helping you get through this. Big Hugs

CurlySue

It kind of proves what a mountain we have to climb in a lot of ways. Once in every four years. Imagine that is the month one of us is unwell and perhaps we don't try as hard? We miss it. It goes. We wait another four years for a decent embryo to come about. It's just mind numbing.

I simply cannot get my head around why this has happened. So, we have Endometriosis, we have PCOS, we have anovulation and now we have sperm issues too? Jesus Christ, if I were actually a religious person I would begin to question whether or not The Greater God wanted me to have children.

But yeah, at least we know, now. At least we know just how messed up the issues are. I actually thought it would make J start seriously looking at adoption. It's sent him the other way. Now he won't even hear of it.

Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head against brick walls :s

puppymom32

That sucks. I am just curious how they could determine the once every 4 years because I feel like I may have a similar issue. I have been trying for what seems like forever and I only get pregnant once every so many years I lose all the babys but I wonder if they could tell if my embryos were good sure would be nice to know up front wouldnt it. It would make things a lot easier. I am suprised J didnt lean towards the adoption now too. I havent even brought it up to my DH he is just convinced that we arent meant to have children at all. I truly am so sorry hope there is something they can give you to try and make the eggs more healthy you would think they would have noticed this before they did the IVF and at least let you know.

HoneyWright

CurlySue, I am so sorry for all you have been through. Its a bit of a double edged sword as you did get honesty and you probably know more about your 'issues' than a lot of us do but obviously the truth is very upsetting.

I hope your care gets better, and everytime i hear a story like yours going further in my journey worries me. How do we all put up with care like this?

I hope you and your husband come to the right decision for you, whether that is IVF or adoption. Do you have options for egg donation?

CurlySue

They have a way of working it out based on a number of issues. They take your FSH level, they compare it to your husband's sperm analysis, and they take a few other things into account. "This is where we get the idea that the average couple takes nine months to get pregnant," he said.

Based on the same formula they equate that I might get pregnant once every four years. So far I've been off the pill for almost four years (came off Dec 2005) and I've never once got pregnant other than through IVF. Even then, the embryos were abnormal. He accepted that my embryos were crap. I felt it, I suspected it, I knew it, and he confirmed it. It wasn't a nice confirmation but at least it was an answer.

They say my eggs, when they do get produced, are fine. They look healthy. It's not the eggs that are the issue, he said, it's the embryos that are produced from those eggs. On day 1, all of my embryos looked good, he said. On day 2 they crashed. On day 3 they basically showed themselves up as really poor. So I have decent quality of eggs but poor quality of embryos created from those eggs. That would be down to an embryologist to figure out why.

The fact is my eggs, when placed with OH's sperm, just do not produce beautiful embryos. I suspect that in order to make better quality embryos out of the raw material they have they would need to do something to them. They need something more. I need something more.

CurlySue

That's how it feels. I wanted answers and I wanted honesty but the honest answer was that basically, I am more fucked up than I ever thought I was and now I have the added disadvantage of OH being less than perfect, too, but the one thing I can say is that it's not all me. We both have issues. It's not all my fault.

It's hard. But I might just be an exceptionally bad case of care. Have known people to sail through. He acknowledged that some of the care we received was unacceptable.

I don't know if I could do egg donation. If I got to that stage I would rather the baby was neither of ours, rather than ones and not the others. I'd rather adopt than go to egg donation.

brumbar

i really don't know what to say hun....good for the doc stepping in and taking ownership....the answers...they hurt....I just hope a little mirracle happens and you get your baby....x

HoneyWright

Thats what i thought as soon as i wrote it, i would think the same adoption over egg donation. I hope it wont get to that though hun, i hope you next appointment goes well. Have a read up on the possibilities and go armed with questions on what they can do to help your embryo's.

Oneday

It sounds like this has made you hubby even more determined to reach your goal. I know you have been thru a lot of shit but don't give up on ur dream miracles can happen and sometimes even the experts can be wrong and the unexplained happens. I would give ivf another go maybe at a different hospital. If I doesn't work out maybe it is because somewhere there is a child out there that needs you and all the love you can give.