Hi girls!

I know there has been alot of threads about the swine flu but just wanted to have an updated one.

Before today i was adament that i DID NOT want the swine flu vaccintation , but in this mornings post i have received a letter from my doctors asking for me to make an appointment for the vacc,now i have had this letter im not so sure, it's making me think twice!

My best friend is also pregnant and she is registered at the same docs as me, and she is unsure what to do aswell.

Im currently 25 weeks pregnant and my best friend is 32 wks pregnant (Hancake100) (she is in 3rd tri).

Im just worried about the babies, if something was to be wrong with them from the vaccine, i would never forgive myself for having it done!

Honey, you really have to weigh up your own personal pros and cons. If you think that you will spend more time worrying about getting swine flu than the effects of the vaccine then I'd go for the vaccine, if you think you'll spend the rest of the pregnancy and beyond worrying that you've damaged your baby then I wouldn't go for it. There's ups and downs to both sides. I am personally not taking it because there is little evidence that it is safe or even works as the vaccine has not been tested as rigorously as most vaccines, other people are taking it because with *any* flu (swine and seasonal flu are pretty much the same) there is an increased risk of complications especially in the 3rd trimester. The medical community are pretty much evenly divided on this, with half the doctors and nurses taking the vaccines and half refusing to. It's hard to know what to do, but I really believe that there is very little risk either way. Just go with your instincts and what will stress you out the least.

I have decided to have it based on my own research; considering the fact that I was in intensive care when I had pneumonia, I can't take the risk with how swine flu might affect me. Any immunity I get from the vaccine could get passed onto the baby through the placenta and through my milk, as they come out with no immunity to it at all and are very vulnerable. Pregnant women are 4x more likely to need hospital treatment if they get swine flu, and tests done on non-pregnant patients (tests aren't allowed on pregnant women due to medical ethics), with the vaccine, have shown no adverse effects, so all worries about the vaccine concern the unborn child. The seasonal flu vaccine has all but one of the ingredients of the swine flu jab and has been used in pregnant women for years with no known effects on the unborn child.

While the incidence of swine flu is currently lower than it has been, there is likely to be a huge surge in the coming months, and when that happens it may be too late to get the vaccine. Out of 124 deaths from swine flu, 12 have been pregnant women, and although they may be women who had other health complaints, this is a high ratio at 10%.

While we are unsure how that one extra ingredient in the vaccine will affect the unborn child, we are also unsure how the swine flu will affect the unborn child, and based on all of the research I have done, I am thinking the vaccine is going to be most beneficial to both me and my child, rather than taking my chance with how I will react to swine flu and possibly leaving my child without a mother.

Back in the 70s with the whole furore of Thalidomide, there weren't so many advances in science and tests couldn't have been as rigorous as they are now, so I also don't get hysterical about the fact that some of those women gave birth to children with SB because of that drug, as this is a totally different scenario and is nearly 40 years later, which is a long long time in science.

Whatever we do it will be for the best for both us and our baby and is an individual choice, but I have done a lot of research and have decided I am going to have the vaccine. There's been the same hysteria over the MMR jab but there is very little evidence that that vaccine has any bearing on whether a child will develop autism, as the MMR jab is so widely used that these could be children who would have developed autism anyway. I have known children who didn't have the MMR jab to develop autism, so there isn't enough evidence for me that it WILL lead to autism etc.

The drugs company make predictions of how the flu virus will mutate and make appropriate vaccines for them, so when the swine flu outbreak occurred, all they had to do was make slight alterations to any one of the vaccines they had available and that is why it is so quickly available to us.

Thank you hun for all the info, big help! xx

This is incorrect, neither Pandemrix or Celvapan is made in the same way as the seasonal flu vaccine.
Celvapan which does not contain adjuvants or thiomersal are made with new vero cell technology, which uses cultured cells from the African green monkey, unfortunately this animal tissue transmits a number of vaccine-contaminating viruses, including the HIV virus and the makers of Celvapan, Baxter, have previously released HIV-containing vaccine and continued to do so even once they knew it had been contaminated.

Pandemrix contains an adjuvant called squalene, which comes from shark's liver. Squalene has been proven to cause autoimmune disease such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis in animal studies. Pregnant women have not been given adjuvanted vaccines before so that although it is known the seasonal flu vaccine is safe for pregnant women, it is not proven that adjuvanted vaccines are safe for us. Pandemrix also contains thiomersal which is a highly contraversial mercury based preservative, although the evidence now shows that it does not cause autism the hypothesis that it could damage neural development is possible.

The final area of controversy is there is still little evidence it works. The belief is that they will be as effective as the seasonal flu vaccine which prevents about two thirds of illness, flu related hospital admissions and death. So even if you do have the vaccine, there is a possibility that you can still catch swine flu.

I'm not telling you this to scare you, merely so you have the all the facts. If I had previously had any severe respiratory illnesses such as pneumonia or suffered from asthma, I would certainly have the vaccine. As I said, it depends on your personal health and circumstances.

Hi, I have decided to have the jab on Thursday based on he fact that I have two boys already, one at school and one at nursery. My husband also travels to the city on trains and tubes so any one of the 3 could bring it but home. I also childmind, and one of the childrens nan had swine flu last week.
Also, I feel like I have to put my two boys 1st, if the worse happened, I could not leave them without a mother. Im just keeping my fingers crossed that this baby will be fine.( im 13wks)
I do feel like im having to choose between my unborn baby and my other two children.
Its really not a nice situation to be in but ive made my mind up now. I gave both my boys the MMR and they are fine so im hoping this is all a storm in a tea cup thing!
Good luck ladies with what ever you decided, its not easy. x

I think each person needs to do their OWN personal risk-benefit analysis and come to their conclusions as a result. I have done a lot of research on it myself and I can safely say that there is equally convincing and valid arguments for both sides of the debate. The doctors can't even agree on it so how are we suppose to consistently and unanimously decide? It boils down to personal choice. For every point that one side can say about the vaccine, the other side can counter answer that point, and so on and so on. It doesn't have so much to do with which side is more correct, it has to do with which side resonates with YOU and seems to be the more correct one for YOU. I've made my choice and I'm happy with it.

Squalene has not been proven to cause autoimmune disease. As with everything in science its difficult to prove anything however some findings indicate there may be a link but nothing was ever proven. The speculation that squalene caused the gulf war syndrome in the 90's is a load of kack also as squalene was never used in the anthrax vaccine given to combatants!

Squalene infact is naturally produced in our bodies. Although the squalene in the vaccine is refined from fish oil, our bodies make squalene everyday in our liver and we need it to survive.

Squalene helps your specific immune system act more quickly as usually there is some lag time between infection and response, this makes the vaccine more effective. Also the use of an adjuvant means that you are offered some protection against mutated strains of the virus which i think is a big positive for the pandemrix given the virus has already begun mutating.

I have had the jab and am very happy with my decision. The relief afterwards is unbelievable. I didnt even get a sore arm.

The thiomersal is a mercury preservative but is only 5 micrograms worth. There is 52-56 micrograms of thiomersal (and other mercury derivatives) in a normal sized tin of tuna (around 6oz of tuna). This amount is not large enough to cause any damage at all. thiomersal was previously linked to autism but since removing the mercury derivative from vaccines given to children in the US the numbers of children with autism has actually continued to increase! The thiomersal is an important preservative which stops contamination of the vaccine. Given its small dose and important role this did not worry me in the slightest.

I posted a similar post regarding the Baxter controversies of late and would like to reiterate what JessiHD is saying.. I was actualy offered the choice of celvapan but refused given that personally I could not trust a company with this track record. I think its shocking. They managed to botch up the avian flu vaccine in only feb of this year and as far as I knew were being investigated for doing so deliberately!!

Lankydoodle (hehe at name sorry in a silly mood!) didnt say it was made in the same way as seasonal flu vaccine she said that mock up vaccines are made and altered accordingly to fit new strains. This has been the case for the swine flu vacs given that a pandemic has been predicted for a few years now mock up vaccines have been in trials for over a year now..

I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you decide.

I'm booked in for mine, I have 3 other children to consider & my OH, plus I work in close proximity to the general public, every day, who come in couhging & spluttering etc.

I spoke to GP about the vaccine today & he is of the opinion that being pregnant I am in a very high risk group & need to be vaccinated ASAP.

I have spent all weekend googling the damn vaccine & its components & can find no real hard evidence that there is any associated risks with the vaccine.

Having said that if I had no children of school age & had not much contact with the general public then I too would be a lot more reluctant to get this done.

Jessi I know you are pretty clued up on this, so can I ask you (feel free to pm if u wish), but my son has a severe fish allergy, and is asthmatic. As squalene is derived from shark liver I am concerned he may have a severe reaction, poss even anaphylatic reaction to the vaccine. My GP has phoned GSK who were as much use as mud flaps on a tortoise, & is now trying to get hold of the paediatirican to see what he says. Do you know of any evidence of to how he may react?

It was tough enoughdeciding for myself, now I have this to deal with too.

Sorry to hijack thread.

Hi Caroline,


I've answered on your other post but just in case others are interested :

Just had a look at this:

http://www.wrha.mb.ca/professionals/...tation_4-C.pdf

and its seems that the purification process for squalene means that the proteins that cause the allergic reaction are destroyed so it should be ok. Is there anything else he is allergic too? I would recommend for your own piece of mind, that if he does have it done that you maybe stay at the doctors for a while afterwards just to make sure nothing happens.

Not surprised GSK were not much help, drugs companies never stick their neck out if they can help it.