General Chatter

Blob · May 21st, 2008, 09:24 AM

Uhm does anyone know the official law on this, dont want to come over all weird but if you or baby has a medical problem there is NO time limit!! It is only the one that is the womans choice that is time limited in the uk.
I'll quote
(i) that the continuation of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or existing children of her family (this ground being available only during the first 24 weeks of pregnancy)
(ii) that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman (no time limit)
(iii) that the continuation of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant women, geater than if the pregnancy were terminated (no time limit)
(iv) that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped (no time limit)
Thats from the Abortion Act UK

Now i found that slightly scary when i read that, cos i'm kinda of the opinion that it should be 12 weeks unless there is a medical problem and the doctor refers you not you asking the doctor.
Im only quoting what it says ok, so if i'm wrong am very very sorry if i have upset anyone.

Sparky0207 · May 21st, 2008, 09:36 AM

To be honest, I dont agree with abortion in general unless of course there is a medical reason - either problems for the mother or poorly baby - FAR too many people seem to be using abortions as a form of contraception and it infuriates me!
In some circumstances I can understand it, what I cannot understand is people who have 3, 4 maybe 5 or more abortions and still seem to think they're doing nothing wrong.

Anyway, back to the actual question.... yes I think the limit should be lowered. I think 12 weeks is long enough to make a decision however I do think there should be the odd exception allowed to go over this period - again if there was medical probs etc. Like Linzi said, if you had your anomoly scan at 20 weeks and the baby was disabled/would have poor quality of life then IMO that is valid grounds to terminate the pregnancy. I have heard stories of people wanting a certain gender then finding out at their 20 week scan that its the opposite to what they wanted and arranging a termination - that to me, is unacceptable.
Babies are proper little people by 24 weeks, you have seen them on a scan, felt them kicking and bonded with them. How people can do it this late out of choice is something that I will never understand.

codiontour · May 21st, 2008, 10:34 AM

how one can be feeling their baby move inside and still decide to kill them is beyond me, it makes me want to be sick

Mamafy · May 21st, 2008, 10:44 AM

Just a short post from me but as a mum who has given birth to a premature child I dont think its right, If I found out at 20 weeks or beyond that my child had a disability I wouldnt terminate either but its up to the individual but it definitely shouldnt be allowed for social reasons beyond 12 weeks but thats my opinion.

Faerie · May 21st, 2008, 11:01 AM

Thanks for your help Blob, but does it mention anywhere what the abortion limit is for "social reasons"?

Of course if you find something out at a late date that is going to affect your health majorly then you should be able to have a late abortion - but it must be made very clear (and illegal) that this is not just for those who decide at a late stage that they don't want the baby anymore. There are other options.

My sister was told at around the 5 month mark that there were problems with her baby, but the Drs couldn't decide just how severe these problems were. She was told everything from the baby might have one leg shorter than the other (no biggy), that is would be severely mentally retarded or that it wouldn't survive more than a few days. But no two Drs could decide, she was sent from specialist unit to specialist unit. She was offered a late abortion repeatedly, but couldn't go through with it, she was hanging onto the hope that the baby would be ok, that even if it was handicapped she could deal with that. The baby wasn't ok at all and didn't survive, my sister was so messed up, still is, I sometimes wish she'd taken the abortion, though whether that would have helped her really anyway I don't know.

Linzi · May 21st, 2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faerie

Thanks for your help Blob, but does it mention anywhere what the abortion limit is for "social reasons"?

Of course if you find something out at a late date that is going to affect your health majorly then you should be able to have a late abortion - but it must be made very clear (and illegal) that this is not just for those who decide at a late stage that they don't want the baby anymore. There are other options.

My sister was told at around the 5 month mark that there were problems with her baby, but the Drs couldn't decide just how severe these problems were. She was told everything from the baby might have one leg shorter than the other (no biggy), that is would be severely mentally retarded or that it wouldn't survive more than a few days. But no two Drs could decide, she was sent from specialist unit to specialist unit. She was offered a late abortion repeatedly, but couldn't go through with it, she was hanging onto the hope that the baby would be ok, that even if it was handicapped she could deal with that. The baby wasn't ok at all and didn't survive, my sister was so messed up, still is, I sometimes wish she'd taken the abortion, though whether that would have helped her really anyway I don't know.

On the other hand, my mum was told with my little brother that he had severe kidney problems and wouldn't survive past 30 weeks, let alone birth and my mum would probably have to have a still birth, but she could also have a termination. She'd been trying for 12 years to have a baby and decided to let nature take it's course.

Of course everything is fine now, he's a healthy happy 7 year old.

Its such a difficult discussion... doctors can't always predict correctly. Ive been thinking about what I posted before and then about my little brother and Im just completely confused now lol

I really dont know.

xxx

Uvlollypop · May 21st, 2008, 11:33 AM

im pro life i dont agree with abortions full stop

Ria_Rose · May 21st, 2008, 11:38 AM

WOW, some interesting reads there ladies.

24 weeks seems far too late. Those seeking an abortion on 'social' grounds would have made their minds up a long time before that point. And I would say 12 weeks would be reasonable - however as there is a possiblity that some women might have irregular periods and be unaware that they were pregnant until after this point, perhaps 16 weeks. Although I am at a loss to how a pregnant women could go to her 12 week scan and not feel a surge of love for that little person on the screen, and as codiontour said once your feel the baby moving the sam thing.

I agree that termination based on medical grounds should be later than that for social. Most women don't have an abnormallity scan until they are 20 weeks and as it might take a while to do further testing, in these cases the 24 week period might be nessisary.

Perhaps what the NHS needs to do is give us all 12, 16, and 20 week scans, so that problems can be detected earlier? And maybe a 26 week scan for good measure?

A long time ago I watched a program on abortions, I don't want to go into too much detail but suffice to say that after a certain point, they have to litterally cut the baby into pieces to get it out. It was a very distressing experience for the doctors having to carry out the proceedures.

GemGems · May 21st, 2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TashaAndBump

This is a very contraversial topic so I'm almost inclined to stay away...

Instead I shall say my piece and then leave:

Babies born at 24 weeks have a reasonable chance of survival, and the methods of abortion used at such a late stage can be barbaric - Also, the mother still needs to give birth and go through labour at this stage so I do not see what possible cause they could have to kill the baby rather than give it up for adoption (except in some extreem medical cases of complications developing in the pregnancy).

I will not go into my views on abortion in general, but with regards to abortion post 20 weeks, I believe that to be very wrong - the limit should be lowered because it is in effect terminating a fully developed baby (so what if it is still inside the womb??!)

Abortion post 20 weeks, should only be performed following a medical referral, because of complications whereby it could be dangerous or unfair to the mother or baby to continue (i.e. if the baby would not survive / would be very ill or disabled, or if the mother could die were the pregnancy allowed to continue.) It should not be used as a selective method of delayed contraceptive - to me it seems to be the same as a woman giving birth and then killing the baby because she "wasn't ready" or "didn't want it".

These are simply my opinions and I know others may differ. I can understand why so many of you have voted but left no comment... However other opinions that may be expressed in this thread are likely to upset me so I take this opportunity to step out... (It's a very touchy and personal subject! You're a brave woman for raising rafwife...)

Regards x

I agree with you 100%!!!

Jem · May 21st, 2008, 11:47 AM

I agree to it being lowered to say 16 weeks for social reasons and only allow abortion after that if there is a serious problem with the baby or mother. My friend's sister found out she was pregnant and wanted an abortion as she's got one child already and had him at 18 and didn't feel ready to have another at 20, if fact she didn't want anymore children full stop! Anyway when she was referred to an abortion clinic and they scanned her they found she was actually almost 16 weeks pregnant and not a few weeks that she thought she was. She couldn't go through with it knowing how far along she was and has decided to keep it! She's currently 27 weeks pregnant and very happy with it all! x

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