Baby & Toddler Club

Layla · May 15th, 2007, 09:25 AM

Thanks for you replies guys,

Beanie, did Seren cry alot while you were laying her down and patting her back? did you find it hard to do it?

x

Lauz_1601 · May 15th, 2007, 11:58 AM

sounds like the only solution would be controlled crying. he needs to know that your not going to take this from him anymore, i had this phase and had to do itwith Ella and it was the hardest thing Iv ever done, but you have to be strong and once you've left him crying, for 10 minutes, if you go back and get him thats 10 minutes wasted, he will think if I cry long enough mummy will come and get me. it really is soooo hard, but it really works, after 3 nights Ella was going down without a peep, so for the sake of 3 nights of screaming it was worth it. maybe try it agin, you and Jase both agree your going to do it and stick to it ?

Layla · May 15th, 2007, 14:07 PM

yeah i think its something i have will have consider, altho im really worried about it, i hate leaving babys to cry

I will talk to Jase later and see what he thinks

x

beanie · May 15th, 2007, 21:20 PM

Yeah she did at fiorst. In fact she would really scream - so I just kept going sh sh and rubbing her back or just sitting by her cot until she stopped. I never said anyhting else to her, just kept the room quiet and dark and eventually she would stop. The as the nights went on she would cry for less and less then stopped the crying altogether. It was hard to do, it was very frustrating at times but it was worth it. I personally don't believe in controlled crying and its not something I can do, and this way I felt as though I was helping her to learn to sleep (if that makes any sense), though I appreciate other people do believe in cc.

I don't think controlled crying is the only answer if it is something you feel that you don't want to do. Google no cry sleep solutions for tips

Layla · May 15th, 2007, 22:01 PM

oo ok im confused now..

I thought what you did with Seren was controlled crying, what you just explained is what i thought it was in my head. thats what i was going to try with Coby, let him cry, but either stay with him untill he sleeps or go back in the room every few mins? are they both different things then?

Was going to try it tonight, i planned to stay in the room with him but just let him cry (god that sounds horrible) but before i had the chance he climed on my lap at 7.45 and went to sleep!

x

beanie · May 15th, 2007, 23:19 PM

Controlled crying was advocated bt Dr Feber.

Quote:

The big sleep issue
A perfect night’s sleep seems a dim and distant memory when you have a new baby. Jane Bartlett looks at the debate about how you settle a crying infant
If you really want to wake up a room full of new parents, talk about sleep. It’s the equivalent of letting off an ideological hand grenade, because a good night’s rest is so much more than just a practical matter. How you handle the big sleep issue says lots about you and your most profound beliefs about parenting.
The perplexities are many, starting with whether you let junior sleep in your bed. Should you ever let a baby cry itself to sleep? At what age do you shunt them into the nursery? And the angst doesn’t stop there. You are likely to be worrying about setting bedtimes right up to the time they’re old enough to witness the TV watershed and risky programmes after 9.00pm.
It seems that in recent years parents have not been very successful in establishing good bedtime habits: research suggests that 50% of British mothers have problems getting babies and toddlers to sleep. According to Professor Gregory Stores, head of research into child sleep disorders at Oxford University, sleep disturbance among young children has become epidemic, and as a result, NHS funded sleep clinics are springing up nationwide to help bleary eyed parents get the shut eye they desperately need.
In the past
Just a few generations ago the prevailing baby care wisdom was based on the virtues of a strict nursery routine, centred on four hourly feeds, and wheeling them down the bottom of the garden where they could holler themselves to oblivion in their prams. Babies were seen to be willful little blighters whose selfish spirits needed to be broken.
All that changed in the 1970s when matron mum became a hippy. Attachment parenting became the cherished philosophy, inspired by the study of indigenous peoples and their apparently well-adjusted infants. This is an overwhelmingly child-centred approach, where baby sleeps in the parental bed, is fed on demand and remains in constant physical contact with their carers. It’s still popular, especially in circles where epidural is a dirty word, but the pendulum does seem to be swinging back the other way. Maybe it’s simply too hard to put baby first in a culture where mum is frequently isolated, and the nearest she gets to an extended family and local community is an episode of EastEnders.
A return to routine
Structure and routine is a very good thing, according to Gina Ford, author and maternity nurse, who has really rocked the cradle with the publication of her ‘The Contented Little Baby Book’ (Vermilion £7.99). ‘All children love routine,’ she claims, advocating an exacting schedule for babies as young as two weeks, which includes six feeds, three naps and bed by seven. Those who champion demand feeding are not pleased; thus the battle of opinions most publicly aired in a fierce Radio Four debate between Gina Ford and Dr Miriam Stoppard on the ‘Today’ programme.
Gina is not at all in favour of baby in the bed, and believes that it’s fine for a healthy, well-fed, winded and clean baby to cry itself to sleep for short periods. ‘I used the ‘crying down’ method, which you start in the first few weeks,’ she explains. ‘You leave your baby in his cot for five to ten minutes and teach him to settle himself.’
The new wave of sleep philosophy
Gina’s book has been the focus of the controversy, particularly because she suggests starting a routine at such a young age, but what she is advocating is in fact not original, and the basis of her approach is the one adopted by the new wave of experts in sleep clinics across the country.
Most of these use the ‘controlled crying’ technique advocated by the Director of the Center for Paediatric Sleep Disorders in Boston, Dr Richard Ferber. Research into sleep has shown that adults and babies alike have three different phases of sleep: arousal sleep, dream sleep and deep sleep. Approximately every 90 minutes, we wake up. We’re not aware that we do because we usually feel so safe and relaxed we immediately nod off again. But if your baby has been allowed to fall asleep in your arms and then transferred to a cot, when they wake they are startled by their new surroundings and cry in panic. The solution? Put your baby into the cot while he or she is still awake so that they recognise where they are when they have these wakeful moments. This means establishing a number of sleep ‘cues’ so that the baby is able to settle itself to sleep.

The Ferber way
Dr Ferber recommends a progressive approach to getting your baby to sleep. Of course, it only applies if you know your baby is healthy, well fed and not mushing around in a dirty nappy. Controlled crying is not an appealing prospect, but advocates claim that it works, and quickly.
Step one
Begin with a cosy pre-bedtime routine – try a bath followed by a cuddle and bedtime story or feed.
Step two
Crucially the infant then has to be put in their cot or bed whilst still awake, and then leave the room.
Step three
If your baby cries, wait for a certain amount of time before checking, rather than rushing in immediately. The amount of time you wait is determined by how many days you have been following the programme, how many times you might have already gone in, and what your nerves can take.
Step four When you go in, soothe your baby by gently talking, but don’t pick her up, rock or feed her. If your baby knows that crying brings them these rewards they will only do it more. Step five Gradually increase the amount of time in-between checks. According to Ferber, after one week your baby will learn that crying gets nothing more than a quick appearance from you, and isn’t worth the lung power.

the time you leave starts at a few mins then is increased
i.e.

Quote:

Day 1

Step 1 Decide on a regular time to start the bedtime routine and stick to it. Allow at least one hour for the bath, milk feed and settling.
Step2 Settle your child in his bed before he gets too sleepy. Kiss him goodnight and leave the room.
Step 3 Allow a minimum of five to 10 minutes of crying before returning to reassure him. Reassurance should be kept to the minimum. You can stroke him or say 'ssh-ssh' softly, but resist the urge to pick him up. Leave the room after two minutes even if he continues to cry.
Step 4 After the first half hour of crying, the times between visits should be increased by five to 10 minutes each time, to 15-20 minutes between visits.
Step 5 Continue with the checking plan every 15-20 mins until your baby or toddler falls asleep. Reassurance should still be kept to a minimum of no more than two minutes and he shouldn't be lifted out of the cot.
Step 6 If your baby wakes in the night, continue to follow the same plan for the evening, gradually increasing the time between visits, until you are going in every 15-20 minutes.

beanie · May 15th, 2007, 23:24 PM

Forgot to say (after such a long post lol) that I think of leaving a child to cry as leaving the room, not staying in with them. Seren was not left, I was continuously sh shing her or rubbing her back, she was just losing her temper with me as I wasn't picking her up but she would stop and eventually fell asleep. The CD also helped. I can remember me and Pete taking it in turns to spend 15 mins with her, as it was taking a while but it honestly got better. It has been like having a new baby, she sleeps so well, and she was never a good sleeper!!

If you want to try controlled crying then Coby is old enough. I just really really would advise against it for a young child, they don't have any sense of object permanence before 8 months and do not understand that if you leave the room you will come back. They just see it as you have gone.

Need to borrow Cats signature I think

Layla · May 16th, 2007, 09:13 AM

Thanks for the info Beanie

I am defo going to try it but stay in the room with him, i really hate the thought of walking away and leaving him to cry, even if i am im only on the other side of the door. Its going to be so hard coz i hate seeing him cry, im a big softy when it comes to that, but i will give it ago.

Last night we went to bed early himself but then woke up at 1 and wouldnt go back to sleep, so i ended up putting him in with us just so i could get some rest, not a very good idea i know

but im so shattered at the mo, and it was my night last night, not Jases

x

Dionne · May 16th, 2007, 10:30 AM

my two have always been great sleepers, no problems but the last 3months Dior has turned into a nightmare.

she was poorly a whil;e back so i kept her up late with me had cuddles munches and watched films till about 11pm at night since then she just screams and scream to come down stairs.

its soooo frustrating i dojnt mind leavging her to scream it out as she is more then old anough to understand. but she wakes Harley by head butting th wall.

so io have now stopped all her napping in the day so by 6.30pm she is soooo tired she is begging for bed.

i really feel for you hun its so stressfull

i have seen the "pick up put down routine" on the tv it seems to work great

when they start to svcrem pick them up dont giggle them or sock them just love them dsay "mummy is here"
then as soon as they stop crying they go back into the cot. let them cry a little while your there then when they are real upset do the same again.

it takes a while but they soon realise you are always going to be there then they drop off

but i have heard that leaving a small child to cry will break the "mother child bond" as they loose all trust in the mummy, i imagine this is true too as they will foprever worry if your going to come back

Layla · May 16th, 2007, 10:36 AM

but i have heard that leaving a small child to cry will break the "mother child bond" as they loose all trust in the mummy, i imagine this is true too as they will foprever worry if your going to come back

yeah this is why i dont want to leave him, im very close to all my kids so i dont want to do anything that might make him feel insecure.
Sat here thinking back it, its strange coz his sleep patteren has almost become the norm for us now, we work everything around him and dont really mona about it, its only coz im pregnant again that i have started to think, maybe i should start taking action.

Im such a soft touch tho, any of my kids only have to give me the puppy eyes and i give in! lol

I will be strong!

xx

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